Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list [BMWTech] EPA rules. [BMWTech] "GLOBAL" warming RE: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list [BMWTech] RE: BMW-Tech Digest, Vol 3, Issue 499 BMW-Digest V2007 #501 Re: [BMWTech] "GLOBAL" warming [BMWTech] Hawaii gas and emissions Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list Re: [BMWTech] Clamps and clamping tools Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list RE: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list BMW-Digest V2007 #502 Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list [BMWTech] I hate my life. Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list [BMWTech] 1985 BMW K100RS cooling fan problem RE: [BMWTech] "GLOBAL" warming [BMWTech] K1100 valves, any metallurgists out there? Re: [BMWTech] 1985 BMW K100RS cooling fan problem Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list BMW-Digest V2007 #504 Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list Re: [BMWTech] Help with K100/2 Re: [BMWTech] 1985 BMW K100RS cooling fan problem Re: [BMWTech] 1985 BMW K100RS cooling fan problem [BMWTech] Re: Clamps and clamping tools [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] [BMWTech] ABSDoug Re: [BMWTech] Was: Probably should be taken off list...NOW: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list BMW-Digest V2007 #503 RE: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list Re: [BMWTech] I hate my life. [BMWTech] Metric Thread Repair Re: [BMWTech] "GLOBAL" warming Re: [BMWTech] "GLOBAL" warming [BMWTech] Re: BMW-Tech Digest, Vol 3, Issue 502 [BMWTech] 1985 BMW K100RS cooling fan problem Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list BMW-Digest V2007 #505 Re: [BMWTech] Help with K100/2 Re: Re: [BMWTech] Help with K100/2 Re: [BMWTech] K1100 valves, any metallurgists out there? Re: [BMWTech] 1985 BMW K100RS cooling fan problem Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list Re: [BMWTech] K1100 valves, any metallurgists out there? RE: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list BMW-Digest V2007 #506 Re: [BMWTech] Help with K100/2 [BMWTech] K100/2 Re: [BMWTech] K1100 valves, any metallurgists out there? Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list [BMWTech] Vapor recovery [BMWTech] Wacky GPS Fun Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list BMW-Digest V2007 #507 Re: [BMWTech] Wacky GPS Fun RE: [BMWTech] K1100 valves, any metallurgists out there? [BMWTech] R1200GS Handlebar alignment Re: [BMWTech] Help with K100/2 [BMWTech] And now, back to clamps and clamping Re: [BMWTech] And now, back to clamps and clamping Re: [BMWTech] And now, back to clamps and clamping Re: [BMWTech] And now, back to clamps and clamping BMW-Digest V2007 #508 Re: [BMWTech] Another Clamp Question - Oetiker NOT! Re: [BMWTech] And now, back to clamps and clamping Re: [BMWTech] And now, back to clamps and clamping [BMWTech] Re: And now, back to clamps and clamping RE: [BMWTech] Wacky GPS Fun Re: [BMWTech] And now, back to clamps and clamping RE: [BMWTech] Wacky GPS Fun Re: [BMWTech] Help with K100/2 BMW-Digest V2007 #509 [BMWTech] Re: Wacky GPS fun Re: [BMWTech] Wacky GPS Fun Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list Re: [BMWTech] And now, back to clamps and clamping Re: [BMWTech] Wacky GPS Fun RE: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list BMW-Digest V2007 #510 [BMWTech] re: And now, back to clamps and clamping Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list Re: [BMWTech] re: And now, back to clamps and clamping Re: [BMWTech] Wacky GPS Fun Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list Re: [BMWTech] Help with K100/2 Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list BMW-Digest V2007 #511 [BMWTech] Karate Kid Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list [BMWTech] K100 8v 16v Exhaust System Re: [BMWTech] K100 8v 16v Exhaust System Re: [BMWTech] K100 8v 16v Exhaust System Re: [BMWTech] K100 8v 16v Exhaust System Re: [BMWTech] K100 8v 16v Exhaust System Re: [BMWTech] K100 8v 16v Exhaust System Re: [BMWTech] K100 8v 16v Exhaust System BMW-Digest V2007 #512 [BMWTech] (no subject) [BMWTech] Re: Karate Kid Re: [BMWTech] (no subject) [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list Re: [BMWTech] (no subject) Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list BMW-Digest V2007 #513 [BMWTech] Oilhead headlight question Re: [BMWTech] Oilhead headlight question [BMWTech] Transmission Re: [BMWTech] Transmission Re: [BMWTech] Oilhead headlight question Re: [BMWTech] Transmission Re: [BMWTech] Oilhead headlight question Re: [BMWTech] Oilhead headlight question Re: [BMWTech] Oilhead headlight question BMW-Digest V2007 #514 Re: [BMWTech] Oilhead headlight question Re: Re: [BMWTech] Oilhead headlight question Re: [BMWTech] Oilhead headlight question Re: [BMWTech] Oilhead headlight question [BMWTech] Shock re-building RE: [BMWTech] Shock re-building Re: [BMWTech] Shock re-building Re: [BMWTech] Shock re-building BMW-Digest V2007 #515 Re: [BMWTech] Oilhead headlight question Re: [BMWTech] Shock re-building RE: [BMWTech] Oilhead headlight question Re: [BMWTech] Oilhead headlight question Re: [BMWTech] Oilhead headlight question Re: [BMWTech] Oilhead headlight question Re: [BMWTech] Oilhead headlight question BMW-Digest V2007 #516 [BMWTech] What Tom Cutter really looks like RE: [BMWTech] Oilhead headlight question [BMWTech] Re: What Tom Cutter really looks like [BMWTech] Re: Oilhead headlight question Re: [BMWTech] Re: What Tom Cutter really looks like Re: [BMWTech] Oilhead headlight question Re: [BMWTech] Oilhead headlight question [BMWTech] OT. British electrics BMW-Digest V2007 #517 Re: Re: [BMWTech] Oilhead headlight question [BMWTech] easy repairs to lucas wiring probably available for Re: [BMWTech] OT. British electrics Re: [BMWTech] easy repairs to lucas wiring probably available [BMWTech] Re: Oilhead Headlight Question [BMWTech] High Voltage Re: [BMWTech] High Voltage [BMWTech] 1985 K100RS hard starting BMW-Digest V2007 #518 Re: [BMWTech] 1985 K100RS hard starting Re: [BMWTech] 1985 K100RS hard starting [BMWTech] Tom and Brian - dancing with the stars ? [BMWTech] Stuck Turn Signal (Again) Re: [BMWTech] Tom and Brian - dancing with the stars ? Re: [BMWTech] Stuck Turn Signal (Again) Re: [BMWTech] Oilhead headlight question [BMWTech] 1985 R65 - are the valve seats unleaded friendly? BMW-Digest V2007 #519 Re: [BMWTech] 1985 R65 - are the valve seats unleaded [BMWTech] Nick Smith/FirstRand/RMB is out of the office. Re: [BMWTech] 1985 R65 - are the valve seats unleaded RE: [BMWTech] 1985 R65 - are the valve seats unleaded [BMWTech] Advice request Re: [BMWTech] Advice request Re: [BMWTech] Advice request Re: [BMWTech] Advice request RE: [BMWTech] Advice request BMW-Digest V2007 #520 RE: [BMWTech] Advice request Subject: [BMWTech] Advice request [BMWTech] Re: Corbin seat Re: [BMWTech] Re: Corbin seat RE: [BMWTech] Advice request [BMWTech] Merry Christmas RE: [BMWTech] Advice request [BMWTech] 2000 R1100S clutch and input shaft splines BMW-Digest V2007 #521 [BMWTech] While the wheels are off... RE: [BMWTech] While the wheels are off... Re: [BMWTech] 2000 R1100S clutch and input shaft splines Re: [BMWTech] 2000 R1100S clutch and input shaft splines [BMWTech] K1200LT fastener sizes Re: [BMWTech] While the wheels are off... Re: [BMWTech] 2000 R1100S clutch and input shaft splines Re: [BMWTech] 2000 R1100S clutch and input shaft splines Re: [BMWTech] 2000 R1100S clutch and input shaft splines BMW-Digest V2007 #522 [BMWTech] Stuck Turn Signal (FIXED!) Re: [BMWTech] 2000 R1100S clutch and input shaft splines Re: [BMWTech] 2000 R1100S clutch and input shaft splines [BMWTech] R1150GS negative battery lead cracked / was rubbing Re: [BMWTech] R1150GS negative battery lead cracked / was Re: [BMWTech] K1200LT fastener sizes Re: [BMWTech] K1200LT fastener sizes BMW-Digest V2007 #523 Re: [BMWTech] K1200LT fastener sizes RE: [BMWTech] K1200LT fastener sizes Re: [BMWTech] K1200LT fastener sizes RE: [BMWTech] Advice request on Corbin Seats Re: [BMWTech] 2000 R1100S clutch and input shaft splines Re: [BMWTech] Advice request on Corbin Seats [BMWTech] Re: Service realities RE: [BMWTech] Advice request on Corbin Seats Re: [BMWTech] 1985 R65 - are the valve seats unleaded BMW-Digest V2007 #524 [BMWTech] RE:BMWTech] Re: Service realities RE: [BMWTech] RT twin plug fuel mileage (was) Advice request [BMWTech] Re: things you don't want to see RE: [BMWTech] RT twin plug fuel mileage (was) Advice request [BMWTech] Re: Service realities RE: [BMWTech] Stuck Turn Signal (FIXED!) Re: [BMWTech] Stuck Turn Signal (FIXED!) [BMWTech] RE: Stuck Turn Signal (FIXED!)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:25:53 -0500
From: "Brian Curry" <bmwbrian@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
On 12/11/07, ABSDoug <absdoug@gmail.com> wrote:
> believe are) false assumtions is what they cost, the inconveniance & over
> complication of things... worse the money can be spent on enviormental
> problems that are 100% proven science. So how does a charcole canister fit
> into that?
VOCs are and issue.
> When filling up with gasoline, in most states, there is nothing to recover
> vapor as you are fueling. I don't know for sure, but it seems reasonable to
You need to get out more. More and more states and stations are
requiring or have vapor recovery nozzles. Some of the VRN have large
foreskins and will not pump w/o them being pushed back exposing the
nozzle. Others just have somewhat of a funnel, and suck in that area.
> assume MANY more unburnt hydrocarbons are venting into the atmosphere while
> filling up as opposed to what a charcole canister does. I've read that
> UNBURNT gasoline is actually worse then what comes out the tailpipe. So if
> that is the case, why the added complexity & expense added to every car when
> these funds could be better spent at the pump, recovering fuel vapors?
They are recovering at the pumps. They are recovering at the tanker
fill station too.
--
--- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Ambassador BMW MOA |
Brian Curry | A society that gets rid of all its
"DEERsSLAYER" | troublemakers goes downhill.
K75RTs both coasts | --Robert Heinlein
Chester Springs PA |
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:31:55 -0500
From: soffiler@ct.metrocast.net
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
From: ABSDoug <absdoug@gmail.com>
Subject: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:57:37 -0500
>... I wonder how many on both sides of the global warming
debate
>have given thought to what I'm about to point out. When
>filling up with gasoline, in most states, there is nothing
>to recover vapor as you are fueling...
Hold it right there. There has been an enormous amount of
thought devoted to this topic. Fact is, 40% of model-year
1998 cars and light trucks, 80% of '99, and 100% in
2000-forward have onboard refueling vapor recovery (ORVR)
systems required by law. Not to mention "Phase II" systems,
which are pump-nozzle vapor recovery systems, required for
use in certain states.
In short, you're nearly a decade late to this party.
Best regards,
Steve O.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:46:42 -0500
From: ABSDoug <absdoug@gmail.com>
Subject: [BMWTech] EPA rules.
It is illegal under EPA to mess with *any* emission control system. If
BMW put an emission control device on the bike that wasn't "required" it
still falls into "illegal" to mess with it. With a motorcycle, specific
equipment is not required, but in order to pass emissions, there are
motorcycles that need a catalytic converter to pass given the set-up of the
bike. One that comes to mind is the big 1200cc Kawasaki sport bike. I
remember reading it was easier to get the bike to run nice by not going
ultra lean, then letting a catalytic converter clean up the mess.
Also note that passing the sniff test is technically not "full
compliance"... most new, healthy vehicles can pass a sniff test w/o a
catalytic converter... the sniff test is a minimum standard. The person
doing the sniff test is *supposed* to confirm that all OEM emission
equipment is unmolested.
Changing to a non-approved exhaust system & I believe even messing with
the intake is also "illegal"... in that case because of sound AND emissions.
If I'm wrong, please feel free to dispute. The rules are (obviously) not
being enforced at all here in FL.
----- Original Message -----
> From: "John R Pierce" <pierce@hogranch.com>
> i wasn't aware charcoal canisters and catalytic converters were EPA
> mandated items on motorcycles, I thought BMW put that stuff on their bikes
> out a desire to be more green rather than any US EPA mandates?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:50:52 -0500
From: ABSDoug <absdoug@gmail.com>
Subject: [BMWTech] "GLOBAL" warming
If it is "GLOBAL" warming, then why isn't EPA requiring ALL states to do
it? I'm not keeping my charcoal canister in the face of this obvious
misdirection of energy. You know what I mean?
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Curry" <bmwbrian@gmail.com>
> You need to get out more.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:02:04 -0500
From: "Michael \"OilheadMike\" Shelton" <oilheadmike@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
ABS Doug said:
<<"I'm one of those evil people that (sic) thinks "man made" global warming
is just a fraction of the "problem". One of the reasons I'm so against (what
I believe are) false assumtions (sic) is what they cost, the inconveniance
(sic) & over complication of things... worse the money can be spent on
enviormental (sic) problems that are 100% proven science . . . . . ">>
One of the few things I would agree with you about. Man-made global warming
is one of the Great Hallucinations of Al Gore and "Dr." Heidi Cullen and
their worshipers. Man-made GW is a myth.
<<"I don't know for sure, but it seems reasonable to assume MANY more
unburnt hydrocarbons are venting into the atmosphere while filling up as
opposed to what a charcole (sic) canister does. I've read that UNBURNT
gasoline is actually worse then what comes out the tailpipe . . . blah blah
blah">>
Doug, why do you want to add another point of hysteria to a problem you can
hardly define? We have been filling gas tanks for over 100 years.
Saddam Hussein's henchmen, when he torched the Kuwaiti oil fields in 1991,
when the Ploesti oil fields / refineries were bombed in WWII, when the
numerous other oil wells and refineries in history have burned or blown up,
have probably released more "unburnt hydrocarbons" into the atmosphere than
the world-wide filling of automobile and motorcycle gas tanks of the past 10
decades combined. The fires and sinking of ships and oil spillages of ships
in WWII and WWI boggle the mind.
Study the release of the various gases into the atmosphere from a major
volcanic eruption. It is left to the reader for his own research.
Here's the deal - for mankind to grow economically and if you want to
improve your bottom line of income and for the world economy to foster and
grow, there MUST be a cogent, congruent, sensible energy plan that the world
can use. If you don't like the idea of filling your gas tank, then walk.
Ride a horse. Use a skateboard. Don't resist or protest the building of
nuclear power plants. Ban NASCAR. Ban the U.S. LeMans Series. Ban the
24-Hours of LeMans and the 24-Hours of Daytona. Ban Formula One, MotoGP,
250GP, and World SuperBike. Ban ALL sports that cause those rascally humans
to drive their gasoline / diesel cars to soccer, rugby, baseball, tennis,
and football matches. Ban the Super Bowl and the World Series. Cancel the
2008 Olympics. Tell Branson to park his jets. Tell Al Gore he could have
given his Nobel Peace Prize speech via videoconference rather than burn fuel
and enlarge his precious carbon footprint for his ego-building trip to
Norway (or wherever he went). Don't fly to Hawaii for vacation. Rather,
hike to the Appalachian Trail, then hike the Trail, then hike back home.
It takes OIL to build roads and a new beloved BMW plant and the world
economy. I challenge anyone to write and present a new energy system
(including the logistics) of say fuel cells / hydrogen power / solar power
that will move earth and pave new roads.
Sorry, we're stuck with petroleum for a long, long, long time. The oil
companies have already demonstrated that they can drill much more safely in
modern times than in days of old, and drilling in Alaska, deep water, and
other "off limit" places is needed if you want to have a reasonable,
comprehensive energy plan that can also encompass nuclear, biofuels, and
hydrogen fuels.
I don't feel a bit guilty when I fuel my car, my truck, or my bike. I'm off
my soapbox now.
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:03:43 -0500
From: ABSDoug <absdoug@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
From Wikipedia (which means it's up for debate ;-) )
----------------------------------------------------
Onboard Refueling Vapor Recovery (ORVR) is a vehicle emission control system
that captures fuel vapors from the vehicle gas tank during refueling. The
gas tank and fill pipe are designed so that when refueling the vehicle, fuel
vapors in the gas tank travel to an activated carbon packed canister, which
adsorbs the vapor. When the engine is in operation, it draws the gasoline
vapors into the engine intake manifold to be used as fuel. ORVR has been
mandated on all passenger cars in the United States since 2000 by the EPA.
The use of onboard vapor recovery is intended to make vapor recovery at gas
stations obsolete.
-----------------------------------------------------
I can now understand why the pumps don't have recovery here in FL... but
I still smell a whole bunch of fumes... & I SEE the fumes... perhaps I need
to take another look at the post 2000 cars & see how that works. Maybe I'm
making assuming based on cars that are older.
Does seem strange to make each vehicle do this instead of the pump.
What's the deal there?
----- Original Message -----
> Hold it right there. There has been an enormous amount of
> thought devoted to this topic. Fact is, 40% of model-year
> 1998 cars and light trucks, 80% of '99, and 100% in
> 2000-forward have onboard refueling vapor recovery (ORVR)
> systems required by law. Not to mention "Phase II" systems,
> which are pump-nozzle vapor recovery systems, required for
> use in certain states.
>
> In short, you're nearly a decade late to this party.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Steve O.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:04:41 -1000
From: "Charles Schuster" <cgschuster@eknahawaii.com>
Subject: [BMWTech] RE: BMW-Tech Digest, Vol 3, Issue 499
Robert's statement "Some states do require a vapor recovery device on pump nozzles. I
think this is mandated based on the air quality of a given region."
is correct. In the larger world (USA anyway) vapor recovery at refueling is a three-way fight between local/state authorities who want cleaner air, gas station operators who don't want the added cost and complexity of the vapor recovery equipment, and vehicle manufacturers who don't want the equipment mandated to be installed on their vehicles. The battle over collection of refueling emissions isn't over, but I think it's not lately a lively issue.
Way over yonder in California, where I visited once or twice, I saw vapor recovery hoses on gas dispenser nozzles. Here in Hawaii, air pollution blows off most of the islands in a matter of an hour or two, and we have (almost) no significant air pollution issues... unless you live on the island of Hawaii, where the volcano emits hundreds of tons of sulfur dioxide and other things, per day.
------------------------------
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BMW-Tech-Digest Tuesday, December 11 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 501
This digest and its contents (c) IBMWR and the original author(s).
---[ In This Digest ]--------------------------------------------------------
Re: "GLOBAL" warming (Brian Curry)
Hawaii gas and emissions (Brian Curry)
Re: Probably should be taken off list (C.J. Billings)
Re: Clamps and clamping tools (Tom Cutter)
Re: Probably should be taken off list (Brian Curry)
Re: Probably should be taken off list (Tom Cutter)
RE: Probably should be taken off list (Dave Eilers)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:26:05 -0500
From: "Brian Curry" <bmwbrian@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] "GLOBAL" warming
On 12/11/07, ABSDoug <absdoug@gmail.com> wrote:
> If it is "GLOBAL" warming, then why isn't EPA requiring ALL states to do
> it? I'm not keeping my charcoal canister in the face of this obvious
> misdirection of energy. You know what I mean?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Brian Curry" <bmwbrian@gmail.com>
>
> > You need to get out more.
I think that the VOC issue is smog. That is local. It varies by
state and even inside a state. I think there are like at least 19
different fuel blends. It is no fun being in the petroleum business
these days.
If you want "Global" which group of "Men With Guns" are going to
enforce it on all the Nation states out there.
VOCs, have never been thrown "global warming" I think. I could be wrong.
--
--- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Ambassador BMW MOA |
Brian Curry | A society that gets rid of all its
"DEERsSLAYER" | troublemakers goes downhill.
K75RTs both coasts | --Robert Heinlein
Chester Springs PA |
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:28:24 -0500
From: "Brian Curry" <bmwbrian@gmail.com>
Subject: [BMWTech] Hawaii gas and emissions
On 12/11/07, Charles Schuster <cgschuster@eknahawaii.com> wrote:
> Way over yonder in California, where I visited once or twice, I saw vapor recovery hoses on gas dispenser nozzles. Here in Hawaii, air pollution blows off most of the islands in a matter of an hour or two, and we have (almost) no significant air pollution issues... unless you live on the island of Hawaii, where the volcano emits hundreds of tons of sulfur dioxide and other things, per day.
Can't you put a cork in that thing barfing off all those SOx
emissions? You could sell the offsets... The state could be
"rich"...
--
--- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Ambassador BMW MOA |
Brian Curry | A society that gets rid of all its
"DEERsSLAYER" | troublemakers goes downhill.
K75RTs both coasts | --Robert Heinlein
Chester Springs PA |
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:32:52 -0500
From: "C.J. Billings" <kb2skb@twcny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
The last question in your post is the easiest to answer:
By mandating ORVR and EVAP systems be built into the cars its' cost is
shouldered by the consumer
in the vehicle purchase price, not by the petroleum companies. Consumers
would find a couple hundred
dollar increase in the base price of their cars more pallatable than a
nickle a gallon increase in fuel costs.
----- Original Message -----
> From: "ABSDoug" <absdoug@gmail.com>
> To: <bmw-tech@lists.ibmwr.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 4:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
> http://www.lists.ibmwr.org/mailman/listinfo/bmw-tech
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:38:25 -0500
From: Tom Cutter <tpcutter@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Clamps and clamping tools
<<i wasn't aware charcoal canisters and catalytic converters were EPA
mandated items on motorcycles, I thought BMW put that stuff on their
bikes out a desire to be more green rather than any US EPA mandates? >>
Those items are fitted by the manufacturer as part of the total
emissions control package. The law extends to all components of the
system. The canister specifically addresses evaporative emissions. BMW
chooses to use a charcoal medium to entrap and store gasoline vapors
when the motorcycle in not in use, then return the fumes to the intake
for combustion during operation. Older BMW K modelsw stored the fumes
in the crankcase, then routed them to the intake tract via the breather
system. The inherent problem with that scheme is oil contamination, and
ongoing changes in the mixture strength as the oil becomes
contaminated. The canister system allows for longer oil change/service
intervals.
There is no law saying how manufacturers must meet the emissions
standards, only that they must do so. Some manufacturers make separate
models to nmeet more stringent local regulations, i.e. California and
Florida several years back. Now they seem to find it more practical to
make common US models to meet all states' regulations.
There is way more misinformation about emissions controls and related
equipment than there is true fact being discussed on internet forums.
Do the reading. It will cure your insomnia. Online forums are not where
you will get educated on the subject.
Â
http://www.RubberChickenRacingGarage.com
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know
peace. " - Jimi Hendrix
http://webmail.aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:49:27 -0500
From: "Brian Curry" <bmwbrian@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
On 12/11/07, Michael OilheadMike Shelton <oilheadmike@comcast.net> wrote:
> Here's the deal - for mankind to grow economically and if you want to
> improve your bottom line of income and for the world economy to foster and
> grow, there MUST be a cogent, congruent, sensible energy plan that the world
> can use.
Why the "developing" countries want no restraints on burning fossil
fuels. W/o them they are "back there.
As to whether a "suitable" or useful plan can be developed, I
personally kinda doubt it. Central planners with that much smarts are
hard to come by.
> If you don't like the idea of filling your gas tank, then walk.
About what it comes to. Oh, and don't forget dying soon too.
> Norway (or wherever he went). Don't fly to Hawaii for vacation. Rather,
> hike to the Appalachian Trail, then hike the Trail, then hike back home.
SNORK.
> Sorry, we're stuck with petroleum for a long, long, long time. The oil
> companies have already demonstrated that they can drill much more safely in
> modern times than in days of old, and drilling in Alaska, deep water, and
> other "off limit" places is needed if you want to have a reasonable,
> comprehensive energy plan that can also encompass nuclear, biofuels, and
> hydrogen fuels.
I just read recently that up until 1952 there was a major push for
"Coal to Oil" conversion to make petroleum. Likely based on the IP we
got from Germany right after WW II. (At the Wehrmacht was fueled by
oil made from coal since they had coal, but no oil fields.) The push
stopped when large oil fields were found in the MidEast.
So much for "that plan" on how we would get oil for living and prosperity.
Hmmm.... I wonder if coal based lubricating oil would work better or
worse in our BMW bikes? Another oil to consider in the synth versus
dino, now versus dirt/stone...
--
--- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Ambassador BMW MOA |
Brian Curry | A society that gets rid of all its
"DEERsSLAYER" | troublemakers goes downhill.
K75RTs both coasts | --Robert Heinlein
Chester Springs PA |
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:51:53 -0500
From: Tom Cutter <tpcutter@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
<< I've had charcole canisters create problems in two vehicle I've
owned. In both cases the carberator was destroyed. When I found out
what a charcole canister did, I started removing them out of every
vehicle I could correctly do so. >>
Let's start with the basics.
The word is CHARCOAL. If you had done any reading on the subject, you
would know that.
Second, most states have mandated vapor recovery systems for fuel
stations for many years, both at the pump and at the storage tanks. You
are right, fuel vapos are bad.
There was nothing anywhere in the thead, prior to your post, which
mentioned global warming. I'm not even going to touch that tripe.
Gasoline vaors are harmful as an environmental toxin. the whole
greenhouse gas/global warmoing debate is for politicians who don't
really care.
I covered more of this in my previous post.
This is why I prefer to stick to topics that address REAL mechanical
issues, not debate hypotheses.
If you have a mechanical problem, post it here, I will let you know if
have any experience that may help you fix it. If you just want to while
away a winter afternoon shooting the BS, that is fine. I'll just skip
it.
You posted <<One of the reasons I'm so against (what I believe are)
false assumtions is what they cost, the inconveniance & over
complication of things... >> ( I didn't bother to run spell checker on
your spelling errors in that line.)
I am surprised, Doug, that you take such a committed stand. Last week
you couldn't even keep your battery terminal tight. I'd say your
vehicles would benefit from more competent maintenance, and less
hamfisted modification. I have never had any customer who has had
nearly as many oddball problems with his BMWs as you have reported over
the last few years. I'm thinking that the common denominator is NOT BMW
engineering.
I think the "false assumtions" (sic) are on your part.
OK, bring it on.
http://www.RubberChickenRacingGarage.com
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know
peace. " - Jimi Hendrix
http://webmail.aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:03:11 -0600
From: "Dave Eilers" <dheilers@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
> Man-made GW is a myth.
No, it's an unproven theory with some evidence to support it.
I may be a bit out of date, but back in the 1970's I did research as part of
a team in the Antarctic for a few months on the Ross Ice Shelf doing
Glaciology. It involved ice cores and creating rather novel virtual "giant
rosette strain gauges" with 1 km legs to calculate the principle strains to
determine ice flow and thickening/thinning of the Ice Shelf. Did a couple of
years analyzing the data as well before moving on to more profitable
ventures.
Fact is, you can do all sorts of work and do all sorts of calculations, but
at the end of the day it is the assumptions you pump into the models that
swing it one way or the other.
While I'm not active in the research any more, it seems rather clear to me
that it is fairly certain that Global Warming is happening, but we still
cannot really define what is causing it, how long it will continue, or what
speed it might progress at.
Heck, we can't even forecast what will happen to the level of the Great
Lakes over a decade or so... 15-20 years ago the problem was rising lake
levels and everyone was worrying what to do about beach erosion and
structure built near the shore, with forecasts of the lake continuing to
rise and rise in the long-term... and now the problem is low water levels!
So keep an open mind -- both ways.
Regards,
Dave E
------------------------------
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BMW-Tech-Digest Tuesday, December 11 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 502
This digest and its contents (c) IBMWR and the original author(s).
---[ In This Digest ]--------------------------------------------------------
Re: Probably should be taken off list (Rob Kleinschmidt)
I hate my life. (ABSDoug)
Re: Probably should be taken off list (ABSDoug)
1985 BMW K100RS cooling fan problem (Bud Holzschuh)
RE: "GLOBAL" warming (Dan Fordice)
K1100 valves, any metallurgists out there? (Chris Banks)
Re: 1985 BMW K100RS cooling fan problem (Brian Curry)
Re: Probably should be taken off list (Mick)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:58:15 -0800
From: Rob Kleinschmidt <rkleinsc@veritas.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
I am very much in agreement with the title of this
thread.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:53:05 -0500
From: ABSDoug <absdoug@gmail.com>
Subject: [BMWTech] I hate my life.
Lately the stupidest things, silly small things seem to turn into big
projects. I have a bad oil pressure switch. Now I have a oil pressure switch
that doesn't work, one that doesn't fit & stripped threads. So I went to the
auto parts store, but they don't have anything for that size. They did have
something to confirm the threads. I screwed the OEM oil pressure switch into
a M12 1.5. Is that an odd ball thread? Where am I going to find a thread
repair kit for that size? I have clients to meet @ 3:00PM tomorrow <sigh>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:29:32 -0500
From: ABSDoug <absdoug@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
I don't know why my spell checker isn't working. Let's leave it at this
Tom Cutter. When I see you, I will introduce myself. At that time, you WILL
say your sorry, or in a NY second, I'm going to fuck up your world. We'll
leave it at that. I'm done w/ old farts being brave behind a video screen.
You would never disrespect me to my face. Never. I'm not wasting my time w/
someone being brave 2K miles from me. We'll see how tough you are in person.
BTW, I'm 36, I'm from NYC & I've taken martial arts. And I'm serious. I'm
done. <smile>
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Cutter" <tpcutter@aol.com>
> To: <absdoug@gmail.com>; <bmw-tech@lists.ibmwr.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 4:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
> http://www.RubberChickenRacingGarage.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:00:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Bud Holzschuh <schuh8@yahoo.com>
Subject: [BMWTech] 1985 BMW K100RS cooling fan problem
So many of you replyed to my recent post about my
cooling fan that never came on, that I thought I would
tell how the problem was resolved so it might help
others.
Brian Curry wrote with the simplest diagnostic. He
suggested simply removing the relay cover and holding
the relay in with a finger. In my case the fan
switched on indicating nothing wrong with the fan or
wiring to it.
Checking the relay socket pin that connects to the
temp sensor for resistance while the bike was cold
(3000 ohms) and warmed up (350 ohms) indicated the
sensor and the sensor wiring was OK.
The only thing left was the relay or rather its
associated circuit board. Turned out to be a bad
integrated circuit ($1.39 at RatShack). Popped in the
new IC and all is well now - fan functions fine and
starts after about 10 minutes of idling.
Cheers
Bud in Panama City, FL
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:00:57 -0800
From: "Dan Fordice" <kari.dan@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: [BMWTech] "GLOBAL" warming
I thought it was "Gorebal" warming.
> http://www.lists.ibmwr.org/mailman/listinfo/bmw-tech
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:11:49 -0800
From: Chris Banks <chrispbanks@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [BMWTech] K1100 valves, any metallurgists out there?
An engineering expert friend suggested I use phosphoric acid to remove
the very hard carbon deposits on my '96 K1100rs exhaust valves. I soaked
the valves (just the heads and 1/2 inch above, not the stems) for about
8 hours and the carbon just washed away, the results were impressive.
Almost too good to be true.
Well maybe it is. My problem is that another engineering expert friend
of mine has since warned me that when phosphoric acid is applied to
steel it causes hydrogen embrittlement.
Has anyone any knowledge of or experience with hydrogen embrittlement?
Should I be worried about my valve heads dropping off?
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:13:39 -0500
From: "Brian Curry" <bmwbrian@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] 1985 BMW K100RS cooling fan problem
On 12/11/07, Bud Holzschuh <schuh8@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Brian Curry wrote with the simplest diagnostic. He
> suggested simply removing the relay cover and holding
> the relay in with a finger. In my case the fan
> switched on indicating nothing wrong with the fan or
> wiring to it.
SNORK. Hey that came out of the air as I was writing it, and I
remembered I had popped the cover off and back on one.
> The only thing left was the relay or rather its
> associated circuit board. Turned out to be a bad
> integrated circuit ($1.39 at RatShack). Popped in the
> new IC and all is well now - fan functions fine and
> starts after about 10 minutes of idling.
Hey, hey, hey!!! Share the IC number and RS PN please!!!!
It just amazed me that RS had something that worked. ODD failure
--
--- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Ambassador BMW MOA |
Brian Curry | A society that gets rid of all its
"DEERsSLAYER" | troublemakers goes downhill.
K75RTs both coasts | --Robert Heinlein
Chester Springs PA |
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:34:15 -0700
From: Mick <bmwmick@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
At 03:58 PM 12/11/2007, Rob Kleinschmidt wrote:
>I am very much in agreement with the title of this
>thread.
I agree Rob,
It has no useful purpose.
Mick
Tucson
------------------------------
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BMW-Tech-Digest Tuesday, December 11 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 504
This digest and its contents (c) IBMWR and the original author(s).
---[ In This Digest ]--------------------------------------------------------
Re: Probably should be taken off list (Tom Cutter)
Re: Help with K100/2 (Bob Zinda)
Re: 1985 BMW K100RS cooling fan problem (James B. Davis)
Re: 1985 BMW K100RS cooling fan problem (Bob Zinda)
Re: Clamps and clamping tools [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] (Geoff.King@ipaustralia.gov.au)
ABSDoug (James Duberg)
Re: Was: Probably should be taken off list...NOW: Probably should be taking your meds... (Chuck Brand)
Re: Probably should be taken off list (Michael McGrady)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:13:18 -0500
From: Tom Cutter <tpcutter@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
<<I don't know why my spell checker isn't working. Let's leave it at
this Tom Cutter. When I see you, I will introduce myself. At that time,
you WILL say your sorry, or in a NY second, I'm going to fuck up your
world. We'll leave it at that. I'm done w/ old farts being brave behind
a video screen. You would never disrespect me to my face. Never. I'm
not wasting my time w/ someone being brave 2K miles from me. We'll see
how tough you are in person. BTW, I'm 36, I'm from NYC & I've taken
martial arts. And I'm serious. I'm done. <smile>Â >>
That's the best you've got? Threats of violence? Please. Bring it, if
you think you have it. I'm from Brooklyn too, and I've been dealing
with half-wits like you for 35 years. I don't fear a coward who hides
behind a phony screen name.
You have been posting your own admissions of stupidity on this list for
years. You disappeared for a while, and nobody missed you. Most likely,
you are soon to be gone for good, because I seriously doubt that the
list admin will overlook your direct threats of physical harm to
another list member. The legal concept is "making terroristic threats
using a communications device." Since your post used the Internet, it
is a federal offense.
There was nothing in my post to justify your abusive response. Read it
again. Then post your very public apology for your threat.
One thing is certain, I will never reply to another request for
technical assistance or information from you. So you lose a source of
information, and I lose nothing. You never brought a single useful
piece of information to this list.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
http://www.RubberChickenRacingGarage.com
http://webmail.aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:23:10 +0100
From: "Bob Zinda" <rwzinda@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Help with K100/2
whats a K100/2?
Bob Zinda
'85 K100 w/Motorvation FII SC
Growing old is mandatory...growing up is optional!
> Anybody got a K100/2 that they might be able to take some photos of for
> me please?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:27:45 +0900
From: "James B. Davis" <jim@easternbeaver.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] 1985 BMW K100RS cooling fan problem
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:00:08 -0800 (PST), Bud Holzschuh <schuh8@yahoo.com> wrote/replied to:
>The only thing left was the relay or rather its
>associated circuit board. Turned out to be a bad
>integrated circuit ($1.39 at RatShack). Popped in the
>new IC and all is well now - fan functions fine and
>starts after about 10 minutes of idling.
what IC is this and where do you put it?
http://easternbeaver.com/ - Motorcycle Electrics,
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:57:39 +0100
From: "Bob Zinda" <rwzinda@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] 1985 BMW K100RS cooling fan problem
How do you "simply remove the relay cover" on a 85 K100RT?
Bob Zinda
'85 K100 w/Motorvation FII SC
Growing old is mandatory...growing up is optional!
simply removing the relay cover and holding
> the relay in with a finger. In my case the fan
> switched on indicating nothing wrong with the fan or
> wiring to it.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:21:23 +1100
From: Geoff.King@ipaustralia.gov.au
Subject: [BMWTech] Re: Clamps and clamping tools [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Re clamps for the vent tubes inside the tank:
Brian mentions using plastic zip ties for the vent connections. I have
used these in my R1100GS for about 50,000 km with no issues. Having said
this I have converted to external fuel filter so have not opened the tank
for some time to check... I know the overflow tube is still connected as
petrol still flows through it when I overfill the tank (no charcoal
cannister on AU bikes).
Clamp thread:
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:33:27 -0500
From: "Brian Curry" <bmwbrian@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Message: 6
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:33:27 -0500
From: "Brian Curry" <bmwbrian@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Clamps and clamping tools
> http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/MainDiagrams.asp?mospid=47830
If you use http://www.realoem.com you get URLs that are useful and not
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=0554&mospid=48866&btnr=16_0422&hg=16&fg=05&hl=5
Piece 3.
> What is the deal? Are these designed to be single use?
Oetikers are designed that way. Some will reuse or try to reuse them.
> Are they useable multiple times with the correct tool?
Not easily.
> I must confess that I reused the clamps when I removed and reinstalled
the fuel pump on my K12RS. I have no choice as those are tiny clamps and
their was no room for a screw type clamp. It literally took 4 hands to
get those little clamps closed.
How many extra wrists??
> What is the correct tool? Will the correct tool fit all the sizes of
these clamps that are on BMW motorcycles? Is it a special BMW tool?
Besides the Oetiker tool, KD Tools also makes one. KD 3374 is the part
number. I have used the KD tool, but not on REAL SMALL ones like you
had. It looks close to the Oetiker tool.
As I looked at this, I think there is a part of the tool that can be
used to "open" the clamp too.
This appears to be the page for it, but is not too useful
http://www.kd-tools.com/3374.htm
Their tool does not have a good search tool at all.
> http://chadstoolbox.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=7917
> The pliers separately are $24 which are designed to clamp from the
front or side of nose where space is limited.
And KD is not showing a price at all.
http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/partsubs.html
http://www.mytoolstore.com/kd/kdsusp03.html
As I was reading this thread, I thought of one other thing. Plastic
Tyraps to hold the vent hoses on. They are definitely one shots. As
long as the fuel does not attack them or make them way brittle they
could likely work fine. You could test by putting some on the hose
"snug" (In addition to the appropriate clamp you put on.) and seeing
how they look next time you go in.
Another thing. For this joint you can use about anything you want or
can find in terms of a hose clamp. You don't need FI rated clamps.
FI rated clamps have NO Sharp Edges where the "screw" engages with.
If you have the sharp edges and the FI pressure and pressure
pulsations, the hose will be cut and that will NOT be good. FI clamps
have are solid and full support on the hose. The screw and nut are
external to it and pull the solid clamp parts together.
In this application, there is no internal pressure, there is no
pressure pulsations, use about "anything". Oetikers might even be
over kill.
http://www.ecd.bnl.gov/steve/pubs/HeatCapacity.pdf) that concludes that
While I "just might agree", I will not bring the tanker of gasoline to
"help" with that fire...
HTH.
--
--- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Ambassador BMW MOA |
Brian Curry | A society that gets rid of all its
"DEERsSLAYER" | troublemakers goes downhill.
K75RTs both coasts | --Robert Heinlein
Chester Springs PA |
Geoff King
Projects Delivery
IP Australia
6283 2187
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:25:51 -0800
From: James Duberg <duberg@cox.net>
Subject: [BMWTech] ABSDoug
Doug, take your attitude somewhere else.
Tom is one of the very best and knowledgeable contributors to this list.
Try to learn from it.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:37:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Chuck Brand <etdweasel@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Was: Probably should be taken off list...NOW:
Probably should be taking your meds...
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 ABSDoug wrote:
>
> I don't know why my spell checker isn't working. Let's leave it
> at
>
this
> Tom Cutter. When I see you, I will introduce myself. At that time,
> you
>
WILL
> say your sorry, or in a NY second, I'm going to fuck up your
> world.
Seriously? You're threatening someone with physical violence in front of a possible 1500 or so witnesses? If I were you (and, thank God, I'm not) I'd be saying a little prayer right now that nothing EVER happens to Tom, having just volunteered to be the chief suspect in any violence that might befall him in the future...
>
We'll
> leave it at that.
But, then, you don't...
I'm done w/ old farts being brave behind a
> video
>
screen.
And, yet, you still continue with...
> You would never disrespect me to my face. Never.
Nope. I imagine you'd be in charge of any disrespectin' goin' on...
> I'm not wasting
> my
>
time w/
> someone being brave 2K miles from me.
...BUT...you ARE wasting OUR time...
> We'll see how tough you are
> in
>
person.
Really, you need to stop now. Consult with an attorney, he/she will explain the details...
> BTW, I'm 36, I'm from NYC & I've taken martial arts. And I'm
> serious.
BTW, I'm 52, I'm from central Pennsylvania & I've taken several Dale Carnegie courses. ( For you I'd recommend "Effective Communications & Human Relations" See http://tinyurl.com/25p49w ) And I'm a big fan of decaf...ever tried it?
> I'm
done. <smile>
Promises, promises....
Ride safe,
(Really, I mean that...)
Chuck
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:30:34 -0800
From: "Michael McGrady" <michael.mcgrady@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
Cripes, Doug, this post is going to force you to abandon that ABS part of
your name.
On Dec 11, 2007 4:29 PM, ABSDoug <absdoug@gmail.com> wrote:
> > http://www.RubberChickenRacingGarage.com
--
Michael McGrady
michael@michaelmcgrady.com
253.720.3365
2000 BMW R1100RT (SE)
1978 Yamaha XS 650
------------------------------
----------
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BMW-Tech-Digest Tuesday, December 11 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 503
This digest and its contents (c) IBMWR and the original author(s).
---[ In This Digest ]--------------------------------------------------------
RE: Probably should be taken off list (Gary Magin)
Re: I hate my life. (SKS3RD@aol.com)
Metric Thread Repair (Corky Benson)
Re: "GLOBAL" warming (Eric Deslauriers)
Re: "GLOBAL" warming (Brian Curry)
Re: BMW-Tech Digest, Vol 3, Issue 502 (toddly)
1985 BMW K100RS cooling fan problem (Bud Holzschuh)
Re: Probably should be taken off list (Roger Pivonka)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:41:51 -0600
From: "Gary Magin" <GMagin@wi.rr.com>
Subject: RE: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
Neat I love this topic!! But I still want to know how to properly remove my
carbon canister, so I don't negatively affect my bike
Gary
-----Original Message-----
> From: bmw-tech-bounces@lists.ibmwr.org
[mailto:bmw-tech-bounces@lists.ibmwr.org] On Behalf Of Dave Eilers
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 5:03 PM
> To: bmw-tech@lists.ibmwr.org
> Subject: RE: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
> Man-made GW is a myth.
No, it's an unproven theory with some evidence to support it.
I may be a bit out of date, but back in the 1970's I did research as part of
a team in the Antarctic for a few months on the Ross Ice Shelf doing
Glaciology. It involved ice cores and creating rather novel virtual "giant
rosette strain gauges" with 1 km legs to calculate the principle strains to
determine ice flow and thickening/thinning of the Ice Shelf. Did a couple of
years analyzing the data as well before moving on to more profitable
ventures.
Fact is, you can do all sorts of work and do all sorts of calculations, but
at the end of the day it is the assumptions you pump into the models that
swing it one way or the other.
While I'm not active in the research any more, it seems rather clear to me
that it is fairly certain that Global Warming is happening, but we still
cannot really define what is causing it, how long it will continue, or what
speed it might progress at.
Heck, we can't even forecast what will happen to the level of the Great
Lakes over a decade or so... 15-20 years ago the problem was rising lake
levels and everyone was worrying what to do about beach erosion and
structure built near the shore, with forecasts of the lake continuing to
rise and rise in the long-term... and now the problem is low water levels!
So keep an open mind -- both ways.
Regards,
Dave E
----------
Article Copyright (c) 2006 IBMWR and the author(s). All rights reserved.
BMW-Tech mailing list BMW-Tech@lists.ibmwr.org
To make _ANY_ changes, including unsubscribing from this list, click:
http://www.lists.ibmwr.org/mailman/listinfo/bmw-tech
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:09:11 EST
From: SKS3RD@aol.com
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] I hate my life.
In a message dated 12/11/2007 6:54:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
absdoug@gmail.com writes:
<<. I screwed the OEM oil pressure switch into
a M12 1.5. Is that an odd ball thread? Where am I going to find a thread
repair kit for that size?>>
It is not an oddball size at all. Look at the nuts that hold your engine in
the frame...
12mm trhreads can be 1.25, 1.5, or 1.75 pitch.
Google M12-1.5 thread repair for a multitude of options.
Regards,
Stan Smith
Beavercreek, Ohio
rockypointcycle.com
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:13:08 -0500
From: Corky Benson <crbenson@equals42.com>
Subject: [BMWTech] Metric Thread Repair
You can find most any hardware item at www.mcmaster.com. They usually
crbenson@equals42.com
C. Roth "Corky" Benson
31 Storybrook Lane
Amherst NH 03031
Home 603 672 8246
Mobile 603 377 0252
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:48:00 -0800
From: "Eric Deslauriers" <eric.deslauriers@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] "GLOBAL" warming
No, no, no, here's one of the key solutions to global warming:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22896334-2,00.html
Sheesh! Now let me get back to warming up the atmosphere inside my house! LOL
Eric D
04 R1100S
06 Husqvarna TE610
Oldest daughter - YZ125
2nd oldest - TRX90
3rd oldesst - XR80
Youngest, and only son - CRF50, Quadrunner 50
On 12/11/07, Dan Fordice <kari.dan@verizon.net> wrote:
> I thought it was "Gorebal" warming.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: bmw-tech-bounces@lists.ibmwr.org [mailto:bmw-tech-
> > bounces@lists.ibmwr.org] On Behalf Of ABSDoug
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 12:51 PM
> > To: bmw-tech@lists.ibmwr.org
> > Subject: [BMWTech] "GLOBAL" warming
> >
> > If it is "GLOBAL" warming, then why isn't EPA requiring ALL states to
> > do
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:04:11 -0500
From: "Brian Curry" <bmwbrian@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] "GLOBAL" warming
> http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22896334-2,00.html
"Professor Walters, clinical associate professor of obstetric
medicine" obviously finds math hard, and has not a clue about
demographics and actuarial issues. (The number of folks which will
understand that statement is small too.)
Some countries have realized the "birth dirth" issue. The Russians
have it on their radar screen. The Japanese are aware of it. Europe
has not smelled the coffee yet, but they will.
Demographics is driving the BMW marketing. They see the issue, and
addressing it will be "interesting" cause there is no cookie cutter
answer.
--
--- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Ambassador BMW MOA |
Brian Curry | A society that gets rid of all its
"DEERsSLAYER" | troublemakers goes downhill.
K75RTs both coasts | --Robert Heinlein
Chester Springs PA |
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:07:14 -0800 (PST)
From: toddly <happytoddly@yahoo.com>
Subject: [BMWTech] Re: BMW-Tech Digest, Vol 3, Issue 502
Wow doug,
Nice attitude....
You beat your wife too if she argues with you?
And after you have done your matial arty 'fucking up'
the police then take your attitude and cuff it, stuff
it and lock your NY arse up! Then Tom sues your arse.
You share a cell with Jimmy-the-splitter....
toddly, in Oz, 38, black belt in origami, psych
charge nurse who recognises antisocial personality
disorders from the other side of the world!
You going to threaten me too?
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:29:32 -0500
From: ABSDoug <absdoug@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off
list
I don't know why my spell checker isn't working.
Let's leave it at
this
Tom Cutter. When I see you, I will introduce myself.
At that time, you
WILL
say your sorry, or in a NY second, I'm going to fuck
up your world.
We'll
leave it at that. I'm done w/ old farts being brave
behind a video
screen.
You would never disrespect me to my face. Never. I'm
not wasting my
time w/
someone being brave 2K miles from me. We'll see how
tough you are in
person.
BTW, I'm 36, I'm from NYC & I've taken martial arts.
And I'm serious.
I'm
done. <smile>
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Cutter" <tpcutter@aol.com>
> To: <absdoug@gmail.com>; <bmw-tech@lists.ibmwr.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 4:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off
list
> http://www.RubberChickenRacingGarage.com
> http://webmail.aol.com
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:34:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Bud Holzschuh <schuh8@yahoo.com>
Subject: [BMWTech] 1985 BMW K100RS cooling fan problem
> Brian Curry wrote:
>Hey, hey, hey!!! Share the IC number and RS PN
>please!!!!
Sure Brian - no prob. The IC used in my fan relay was
a LM339 which is a quad comparator. I don't have the
Ratshack number handy but they will be happy to look
it up if you need one.
This IC is probably one of the 5 or 10 most used IC's.
ANY tech or electronic parts house will be familiar
with it and it can be had from a million sources,
Ratshack is just the most convenient source for me.
Cheers
Bud in Panama City, FL
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:02:47 -0500
From: "Roger Pivonka" <rpivonka@alltel.net>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
ABS Doug
It sounds like YOUR bravado is about ?? 2k miles away from TC.
Written threats like you have issued would stand up in court as clear
evidence of premeditation.
Fix your spell checker and chill.
--
Roger P
It's all about the Ride
Ride Safe, Ride Often
1995 K1100RS "KVITA"
2000 R1100RT-P "CF PD"
Chagrin Falls, Ohio
----- Original Message -----
> From: "ABSDoug" <absdoug@gmail.com>
> To: <bmw-tech@lists.ibmwr.org>; "Tom Cutter" <tpcutter@aol.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 7:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
> I don't know why my spell checker isn't working. Let's leave it at this
> Tom Cutter. When I see you, I will introduce myself. At that time, you
> WILL say your sorry, or in a NY second, I'm going to fuck up your world.
> We'll leave it at that. I'm done w/ old farts being brave behind a video
> screen. You would never disrespect me to my face. Never. I'm not wasting
> my time w/ someone being brave 2K miles from me. We'll see how tough you
> are in person. BTW, I'm 36, I'm from NYC & I've taken martial arts. And
> I'm serious. I'm done. <smile>
------------------------------
----------
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BMW-Tech-Digest Wednesday, December 12 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 505
This digest and its contents (c) IBMWR and the original author(s).
---[ In This Digest ]--------------------------------------------------------
Re: Help with K100/2 (Steve)
Re: Re: [BMWTech] Help with K100/2 (James B. Davis)
Re: K1100 valves, any metallurgists out there? (Jeff Dunkle)
Re: 1985 BMW K100RS cooling fan problem (Jeff Dunkle)
Re: Probably should be taken off list (Jeff Dunkle)
Re: K1100 valves, any metallurgists out there? (Tom Wade)
RE: Probably should be taken off list (Gary Magin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:03:12 +0000
From: Steve <cetacean@talktalk.net>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Help with K100/2
> http://www.lists.ibmwr.org/mailman/listinfo/bmw-tech
This <http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/photos/photophotos/k1002-3.jpg> is a K100/2
Totally different headlamp and radiator surround.
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:20:03 +0900
From: "James B. Davis" <jim@easternbeaver.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [BMWTech] Help with K100/2
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:03:12 +0000, Steve <cetacean@talktalk.net> wrote/replied to:
>This <http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/photos/photophotos/k1002-3.jpg> is a K100/2
Cool, never seen that one before.
Looks like a plastic piece for the air intake, likely matching on the other side. And the headlight and turn signals
appear to be bolted on somewhere, likely the steering head same place as the RS fairing would mount, although it's
impossible to tell in that photo.
Kind of hard to say anything for sure from that photo as to mounting but it appears there's not that many pieces. The
rad appears more or less open without trim, but it's so dark it's hard to tell.
These are rare models so any pieces you need are likely impossible to fine. Good luck.
http://easternbeaver.com/ - Motorcycle Electrics,
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 05:46:24 -0500
From: "Jeff Dunkle" <jeffrey.dunkle@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] K1100 valves, any metallurgists out there?
On Dec 11, 2007 8:11 PM, Chris Banks <chrispbanks@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> An engineering expert friend suggested I use phosphoric acid to remove
> the very hard carbon deposits on my '96 K1100rs exhaust valves. I soaked
> the valves (just the heads and 1/2 inch above, not the stems) for about
> 8 hours and the carbon just washed away, the results were impressive.
> Almost too good to be true.
>
> Well maybe it is. My problem is that another engineering expert friend
> of mine has since warned me that when phosphoric acid is applied to
> steel it causes hydrogen embrittlement.
>
> Has anyone any knowledge of or experience with hydrogen embrittlement?
> Should I be worried about my valve heads dropping off?
>
> Chris
Kris,
I can't answer your question directly, "did exposure to phosphoric
acid risk hydrogen embrittlement to your valves"? But, hydrogen
embrittlement "is" a very real and well understood phenomenon. I
first learned about it going through AF aircraaft maintenance school.
Later, when working in nuclear power, it's comes up a lot. Also in
the space industry where literal liquid hydrogen has to be stored.
What it is is the percolation of hydrogen atoms into the metal in
between the molecular and crystal structure and once there the
hydrogen reacts in ways that weaken the metal.
As for phosphoric acid, it's basically the stuff in Naval Jelly, the
gooy stuff you spread on metal to remove corrosion. That's phosphoric
acid in a gel.
Here's what Wiki says about hydrogen embrittlement:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement
I wish I could say definitively if your actions damaged the valves.
If it were me I'd probably chance using them.......but I'd hate to be
the one to talk you into a bad decision. You might want to get an old
valve, expose it to the same conditions, then mess around with it to
see if you can break it. If you knew someone with a Sharpie tester,
test the valve's hardness before and after the acid exposure. That
might give you some quantitative information. That would have to be a
friend in a pretty well equipped machining shop but they're out t
here.
Brian my have a much better feel than I do for your situation, but my
recollection of most places where hydrogen embrittlement occurs is
that it's a slow process and requires a fairly long exposure time.
Good luck.
Jeff
--
Jeff Dunkle
Fredericksburg, VA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 05:50:50 -0500
From: "Jeff Dunkle" <jeffrey.dunkle@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] 1985 BMW K100RS cooling fan problem
On Dec 11, 2007 10:34 PM, Bud Holzschuh <schuh8@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Brian Curry wrote:
> >Hey, hey, hey!!! Share the IC number and RS PN
> >please!!!!
>
> Sure Brian - no prob. The IC used in my fan relay was
> a LM339 which is a quad comparator.
Bud, My complements. You're the first person "I've" encountered
that went inside that controller and did a cheap repair. I"ve R&R's a
number of those over the years and you may have just shown what a, if
not the, common failure mode is. Thanks
--
Jeff Dunkle
Fredericksburg, VA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 06:03:46 -0500
From: "Jeff Dunkle" <jeffrey.dunkle@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
Ok....my $0.02 in a thread that probably should have died...but I'll
add to it anyway.
1. Last year we got my wife a '97 F650ST. It' was relatively low
mileage and was not run often by the original owner. The seller, a
friend, reported that it had sometimes stumbled and hesitated. It did
for my wife as well. After doing all the usual stuff, some reading on
the Chain Gang indicated that a lot of folks removed the charcoal
canister to correct this problem. I did, and the problem went away.
I'm a sincere believer in environmental protection, but I did this
anyway. We're not all consistent all the time.
2. As for global warming, my mom lived on an ocean side location on
the North Carolina islands for over 20 years. Each year the surf
moved about 4 or 5 feet a year closer to her back door. A very
observable fact. Something's going on, but it will probably take
water lapping at the steps of the NY Stock Exchange to get our
collective attention.
--
Jeff Dunkle
Fredericksburg, VA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 06:47:03 -0500
From: "Tom Wade" <tom@wade.name>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] K1100 valves, any metallurgists out there?
I also don't know the answe to Chris's question.
In the aircraft industry, electroplating, and especially chrome plating, is
a well known source of hydrogen embrittlement. To this end, you rarely see
chrome plated aircraft parts, especially structural parts.
Hydrogen embrittlement can be alleviated by baking the plated parts in an
oven for a specified time, at a specified temperature. Unfortunately, this
process must begin very quickly after finishing the plating process. [And I
don't remember the time frame]
At one point in history, one of the parachute manufacturers had a batch of
parachute hardware produced, and chrome plated. They took all the
precautions. Unfortunately, many lesser informed skydivers saw this chrome
plated hardware, and took their hardware to their local chrome platers, most
of whom had no knowledge of hydrogen embrittlement. As a resultl, the FAA
soon outlawed ALL chrome plated hardware, as it was impossible to determine
which hardware was legally produced, and which was "aftermarket." At this
point, I should insert some stories of equipment failures. But i don't know
any.
I have heard tales, long ago, of aircraft structural parts which had been
chrome plated, then later fell off a workbench and shattered. True stories?
Don't know.
What would it cost to replace all the affected valves? What would it cost
to rebuild you engine is one valve head comes off?
What is the probability of a valve head coming off?
Don't know any of these answers.
You probably need to go to your nearest engineering university and find a
chemical engineering professor and ask him/her.
Tom Wade
Hope, Indiana
<Sorry, Brian, no snippage.>
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Dunkle" <jeffrey.dunkle@gmail.com>
> To: "BMW - Tech List" <bmw-tech@lists.ibmwr.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 5:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [BMWTech] K1100 valves, any metallurgists out there?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 06:14:03 -0600
From: "Gary Magin" <GMagin@wi.rr.com>
Subject: RE: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
IT'S TIME TO BAN THIS WACKO CASE FROM THE LIST!!!!! What about it
administrator!!!
-----Original Message-----
> From: bmw-tech-bounces@lists.ibmwr.org
[mailto:bmw-tech-bounces@lists.ibmwr.org] On Behalf Of ABSDoug
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 6:30 PM
> To: bmw-tech@lists.ibmwr.org; Tom Cutter
> Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
I don't know why my spell checker isn't working. Let's leave it at this
Tom Cutter. When I see you, I will introduce myself. At that time, you WILL
say your sorry, or in a NY second, I'm going to fuck up your world. We'll
leave it at that. I'm done w/ old farts being brave behind a video screen.
You would never disrespect me to my face. Never. I'm not wasting my time w/
someone being brave 2K miles from me. We'll see how tough you are in person.
BTW, I'm 36, I'm from NYC & I've taken martial arts. And I'm serious. I'm
done. <smile>
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Cutter" <tpcutter@aol.com>
> To: <absdoug@gmail.com>; <bmw-tech@lists.ibmwr.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 4:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
>
> << I've had charcole canisters create problems in two vehicle I've owned.
> In both cases the carberator was destroyed. When I found out what a
> charcole canister did, I started removing them out of every vehicle I
> could correctly do so. >>
>
> Let's start with the basics.
>
> The word is CHARCOAL. If you had done any reading on the subject, you
> would know that.
>
> Second, most states have mandated vapor recovery systems for fuel stations
> for many years, both at the pump and at the storage tanks. You are right,
> fuel vapos are bad.
>
> There was nothing anywhere in the thead, prior to your post, which
> mentioned global warming. I'm not even going to touch that tripe.
>
> Gasoline vaors are harmful as an environmental toxin. the whole greenhouse
> http://www.RubberChickenRacingGarage.com
----------
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------------------------------
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BMW-Tech-Digest Wednesday, December 12 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 506
This digest and its contents (c) IBMWR and the original author(s).
---[ In This Digest ]--------------------------------------------------------
Re: Help with K100/2 (Joe Dille)
K100/2 (Paul or Voni Glaves)
Re: K1100 valves, any metallurgists out there? (Joe Dille)
Re: Probably should be taken off list (Brian Curry)
Vapor recovery (Anton Largiader)
Wacky GPS Fun (Chuck Brand)
Re: Probably should be taken off list (Tom Childers)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 08:48:20 -0500
From: "Joe Dille" <joe@dille.montgomery.pa.us>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Help with K100/2
> Bob Zinda wrote:
> > whats a K100/2?
> >
> > Bob Zinda
> > '85 K100 w/Motorvation FII SC
> > Growing old is mandatory...growing up is optional!
> >
> >
> >
> >> Anybody got a K100/2 that they might be able to take some photos of
> >> for me please?
> >
> >
> This <http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/photos/photophotos/K100%20%281%29.jpg>
Steve,
I had never heard of a K100/2 before. It is a sharp looking bike. I
have a plain K100, so I don't think I can help you.
Ride Safe,
Joe
---------------------------------
Joe Dille
Telford, PA USA
joe@dille.montgomery.pa.us
http://home.jtan.com/~joe/joe.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 08:02:58 -0600
From: Paul or Voni Glaves <p_vglaves@mindspring.com>
Subject: [BMWTech] K100/2
> Cool, never seen that one before. Looks like a plastic piece for the
> air intake, likely matching on the other side. And the headlight and
> turn signals appear to be bolted on somewhere, likely the steering
> head same place as the RS fairing would mount, although it's
> impossible to tell in that photo. Kind of hard to say anything for
> sure from that photo as to mounting but it appears there's not that
> many pieces. The rad appears more or less open without trim, but it's
> so dark it's hard to tell. These are rare models so any pieces you
> need are likely impossible to fine. Good luck.
> -- Jim Davis, Owner, Eastern Beaver Company:
That front end looks just like the one on the K75/2 - which for the
longest time I couldn't figure out what it was. But the '95 low seat
K75 standard I bought from Harriet and Phil Marvin has a headlight and
front bits just like the picture of this K100/2. And I understand that
this K75 actually has /2 nomenclature. Even my version of the ETK uses
/2 nomenclature.
Paul Glaves
--
Big Bend, Texas U.S.A.
-----------------------------------
http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves
-----------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:22:40 -0500
From: "Joe Dille" <joe@dille.montgomery.pa.us>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] K1100 valves, any metallurgists out there?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement
http://www.omegaresearchinc.com/Publications/metal.html
Basically, what you did was an acid cleaning or pickling operation.
This can cause hydrogen to be evolved. Hydrogen Embrittlement (HE)
is a big deal in the plating industry. The issue with plating is the
hydrogen evolved in plating gets stuck behind the plating and goes
into the base metal where it causes problems. They typically bake
the parts after plating to get they hydrogen out after plating before
the parts see service.
I don't know what the exhaust valves on your bike are made from, but
I am fairly sure it qualifys as a high strength steel and would be
suseptable to HE. The valves are not plated so any hydrogen would
have a clear path away from the base metal. I have no idea how
strong the acid was or how long you let it soak. Longer and stronger
would be bad.
One of the signature characteristics with a HE failure is that it
happens at low stress levels. The parts just break by them selves.
I suspect just the valve spring pressure would bring it on.
If you want to try and use these valves there are two things you
could do:
1- Bake the valves in an oven to drive out any residual hydrogen.
Longer and hotter is better. The exhaust valve glows red in service
so it would be difficult to overheat them. I suggest you wait until
your wife is gone and pop these in the oven at 450F for 2+ hours and
then let them cool in the oven with the oven off.
2- Install the valves in the head and let it sit on the bench for a
week. As I said HE causes failures at low stress levels. The valve
springs may cause enough stress to cause failure. If you want to get
fancy you can add spacers under the valve springs to increase the
seating pressure. Since you will not be running the engine you could
go with thick spacers. If any of the valves fail it would be much
cheaper on the bench than in the engine.
The only way to be 100% sure you are OK is to replace all the exhaust
valves. This will be expensive. If you decide to use the original
valves the good thing will be if the valves don't fail in the first
couple hundred miles you will be OK.
Ride Safe,
Joe
---------------------------------
Joe Dille
Telford, PA USA
joe@dille.montgomery.pa.us
http://home.jtan.com/~joe/joe.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:15:50 -0500
From: "Brian Curry" <bmwbrian@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
On 12/12/07, Gary Magin <GMagin@wi.rr.com> wrote:
> IT'S TIME TO BAN THIS WACKO CASE FROM THE LIST!!!!! What about it
> administrator!!!
You got spattered by pieces of foot from the shooting?
Or was it detonating explosives strapped to some part of the body?
--
--- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Ambassador BMW MOA |
Brian Curry | A society that gets rid of all its
"DEERsSLAYER" | troublemakers goes downhill.
K75RTs both coasts | --Robert Heinlein
Chester Springs PA |
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:17:20 -0500
From: Anton Largiader <anton@largiader.com>
Subject: [BMWTech] Vapor recovery
As far as what does the recovery (vehicles vs. service stations, etc) my
understanding is that vapors are created any time there is space above
the fuel, and to some extent this is unavoidable.
A vehicle's fuel tank emptying will create vapor in the air space when
air is drawn in and becomes contaminated. By swapping this vapor volume
for fuel volume during refilling, you contain that vapor rather than
creating new vapor in the underground tank that's emptying. This is what
the much-despised vapor recovery nozzles do. They're a PITA to use
because they aren't well-suited for motorcycles, but I don't like to sit
there breathing all of the vapor that's coming out the gas flap, either.
I'd much rather have it sent to the underground tank than to my lungs.
Vapor is also generated when the air (vapor) in the vehicle's fuel tank
expands and forces itself out, then contacts and pulls air into the tank
that gets contaminated. In that case it's up to the vehicle to deal with
it, and that's where the charcoal canister comes into play. It stores
the hydrocarbons (basically cleaning the air that's emitted) and burns
them later on in the engine. Seems to me that pulling a bike with an
empty tank into a heated garage on a cold day would be the typical
problem. I don't like my enclosed spaces filling up with fumes, so if I
had an heated garage you bet I would make sure by bikes were set up
properly. I might even rig a canister on bikes that didn't have one. I
don't like smelling gasoline.
So the way I see it, it's not an either/or matter of who has to contain
the vapors, everything has to do its part to contain vapors that are
generated at that point.
--
anton at largiader.com http://largiader.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:16:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Chuck Brand <etdweasel@yahoo.com>
Subject: [BMWTech] Wacky GPS Fun
Okay, boys and girls, I've got a weird one here...
My trusty Garmin 2720 StreetPilot is sneaking out at night and havin' fun without me. Gotta be. How else can I explain the following:
Just before Thanksgiving, I took ride over some of the local back roads on an unseasonably warm day (Thanks, all you folks who disconnected your charcoal cannisters! Just kidding...) As I often do, I checked my riding time, distance and average speed at a fuel stop. Imagine my surprise when I noticed my maximum recorded speed was 179 MPH! Wow! Didn't know the ol' FYKRT had it in her! (That new stretch of four lane on RT 22 must be smoother than I thought...) I thought it was odd, but, in the interest of truth in advertising, I reset it. Got home, and my max was 77.
ickly reach up a4…@ HËÿ¿]@ Êÿ¿Êÿ¿Å@„ er day.
s isn't over, but I think it's not lately a lively issue.
ave not liked about the Nolans. I am on my second( @is h lippe!
Ðÿ¿Ðÿ¿hËÿ¿´/Ìÿ¿Ðÿ¿hËÿ¿~
Fast forward to this past weekend. The wife drives to North Carolina to visit her brother for the weekend, and uses the Garmin for directions. She gets back, I set the thing up to navigate to a client's home and, when I go to reset the trip info I notice the max speed is now 251 MPH! Now, the Brick is fast, but I'm seriously doubting SWMBO had the daughter's Murano runnin' above 250 on I-77.
So...any ideas? I mean, this is fun to show to the friends and all, but I'm starting to seriously question the info that Jill, the Patron Saint of Electronic Directions, lays out for me on that little screen. Everything else seems right; travel times, distances, etc. As I said at the beginning, weird.
Ride safe (and keep 'er under 250...),
Chuck
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:32:04 -0800
From: Tom Childers <tdc@computer.org>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Probably should be taken off list
ABSDoug is gone. And it's not the first time; he did something
inappropriate 5 years ago too.
I can't imagine how I missed this bit of nonsense. I read the tech
list pretty carefully :-/
-tdc
Tom Childers
IBMWR Admin
On Dec 12, 2007, at 4:14 AM, Gary Magin wrote:
>> http://www.RubberChickenRacingGarage.com
------------------------------
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BMW-Tech-Digest Wednesday, December 12 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 507
This digest and its contents (c) IBMWR and the original author(s).
---[ In This Digest ]--------------------------------------------------------
Re: Wacky GPS Fun (Roger Pivonka)
RE: K1100 valves, any metallurgists out there? (Dave Eilers)
R1200GS Handlebar alignment (Antonio Manega)
Re: Help with K100/2 (Bob Zinda)
And now, back to clamps and clamping (DeVern Gerber)
Re: And now, back to clamps and clamping (Tom Cutter)
Re: And now, back to clamps and clamping (Anton Largiader)
Re: And now, back to clamps and clamping (Brian Curry)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:34:29 -0500
From: "Roger Pivonka" <rpivonka@alltel.net>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Wacky GPS Fun
Hey Chuck,
I hope you've posed that question to Garmin too.
Maybe there is a firmware/software update your unit is lacking.
MY Garmin iQueM5 shows a max speed of 572 mph.
But that's because I activated it on a flight to North Carolina when I
bought my last bike.
And I'm not resetting it.
--
Roger P
It's all about the Ride
Ride Safe, Ride Often
1995 K1100RS "KVITA"
2000 R1100RT-P "CF PD"
Chagrin Falls, Ohio
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chuck Brand" <etdweasel@yahoo.com>
> To: <bmw-tech@lists.ibmwr.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:16 AM
> Subject: [BMWTech] Wacky GPS Fun
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:56:56 -0600
From: "Dave Eilers" <dheilers@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [BMWTech] K1100 valves, any metallurgists out there?
Since Naval Jelly has phosphoric acid as the active ingredient, and Permatex
sells Naval Jelly nowadays, it might be worth asking Permatex if Naval Jelly
can be used for cleaning valves, or if there are hydrogen embrittlement
issues with it.
Regards,
Dave E
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:14:59 -0600
From: "Antonio Manega" <amanega@gmail.com>
Subject: [BMWTech] R1200GS Handlebar alignment
Hi everyone.Quick question about aligning the handlebar on a 1200 GS.
What is your procedure? How do you obtain a perpendicular alignment?
Best
anton
R1200GS
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:44:13 +0100
From: "Bob Zinda" <rwzinda@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Help with K100/2
neat looking bike...I never saw or heard of one.
must be few around.
Bob Zinda
Sussex, WI
'85 K100 w/Motorvation FII SC
Growing old is mandatory...growing up is optional!
----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve
To: Bob Zinda
Cc: BMW-Tech@lists.ibmwr.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Help with K100/2
Bob Zinda wrote:
whats a K100/2?
Bob Zinda
'85 K100 w/Motorvation FII SC
Growing old is mandatory...growing up is optional!
Anybody got a K100/2 that they might be able to take some photos of for me please?
http://www.lists.ibmwr.org/mailman/listinfo/bmw-tech
This is a K100
This is a K100/2
Totally different headlamp and radiator surround.
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:42:44 -0700
From: "DeVern Gerber" <gerberd@mtwest.net>
Subject: [BMWTech] And now, back to clamps and clamping
When I posted the original query on alternatives to the Oetiker clamps for in-tank vent
lines, and tools to work with the Oetiker clamps, I had no idea the thread would
devolve through EPA legalities, global warming, and a shootout at the OK Corral.
Sorry to see all that on what should be a tech-oriented list.
Anyway, back to the original point: Someone posted a frustration over dealing with the
Oetikers on the vent lines inside the fuel tank. I shared that frustration, the Oetikers
are great on FI lines and such, and I am OK with them there as they are easy to get at
and of sufficient size that the ham-fisted, like me, can still work with them. Especially
now that I have a proper Oetiker tool on order.
However, I still can't help but feel the the Oetikers are Overkill on those in-tank vent
lines. What is needed is a clamp that provides sufficient pressure to seal the line
without damaging the line, but which would preferably be more user-friendly to the
mere mortal mechanic. I note that I don't see extensive use of the Oetikers on other
marques, and I'd love to get a close-up look at what the others are doing--especially
with any in-tank connections they are using for SHED or recovery systems.
Searching the web for alternatives, I ran across this company:
http://www.rotorclamp.com/products.php
and in particular these clamps:
http://www.rotorclamp.com/cat_pdfs/ctl.pdf
or these:
http://www.rotorclamp.com/cat_pdfs/hc.pdf
Either of these are available in the correct size for the in-tank connections and would
seem, to this admittedly untrained eye, to do the job--and I see such clamps used in
many vent/vapor recovery systems on other vehicles.
Since I don't need 10000 of these on the shelf in my garage I contacted the
manufacturer to locate the nearest (to me) dealer or distributor who would have these
broken down into manageable-sized lots. The response I received was:
http://www.prospectfastener.com/
I haven't contacted them yet and am out of time this morning, will post back what I find
out--unless one of our Illinois subscribers is already familiar with the company. I want
to get price/quantity/availability information and try these out. Yes, I know they are not
the "proper" German-engineered item for this application so let's just not go there. I'm
just looking for a way to simplify the filter-changing process for us mere mortals that in
our hearts would really like to keep the fuel filter in the tank, as designed in Der
Faderland, but would like to make servicing that filter a less odious, and hopefully more
frequently performed, task.
Sorry about the length, now back to the regularly scheduled programming.
Best,
DeVern
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:11:17 -0500
From: Tom Cutter <tpcutter@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] And now, back to clamps and clamping
<<I note that I don't see extensive use of the Oetikers on
other
marques, and I'd love to get a close-up look at what the others are
doing--especially
with any in-tank connections they are using for SHED or recovery
systems.
Searching the web for alternatives, I ran across this company:
http://www.rotorclamp.com/products.php >>
Suzuki uses the Single Coil Clamp style in their internal vent lines,
so does Aprilia. I have repaired leaks in the internal vent systems of
both brands. I use Oetiker clamps to cure the leakage.
http://www.RubberChickenRacingGarage.com
"Motorcycling is not, of itself, inherently dangerous. It is, however,
extremely unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence, or
stupidity ." - unk.
http://webmail.aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:23:38 -0500
From: Anton Largiader <anton@largiader.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] And now, back to clamps and clamping
DeVern Gerber wrote:
> Anyway, back to the original point: Someone posted a frustration
> over dealing with the Oetikers on the vent lines inside the fuel
> tank.
The clamps I usually see on vent lines are CLIC clamps, not Oetikers:
http://www.answers.com/topic/hose-clamp shows them.
BMW uses two different sizes of vent line, 8mm and 10mm. Each has a CLIC
clamp.
8mm clamp
BMW part 16 11 2 313 574
"CLIC 55 No. 80" stamped on it
10mm clamp
BMW part 64 12 1 378 285
"CLIC 66 No. 100"
I open these by pushing the ends apart sideways, and refasten them with
wiring pliers.
I've seen those CTL clamps used on different things (usually Airhead
fuel lines) and they look like an OK part for the vent lines, but I've
not used them that way.
--
anton at largiader.com http://largiader.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:31:28 -0500
From: "Brian Curry" <bmwbrian@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] And now, back to clamps and clamping
> http://www.rotorclamp.com/products.php >>
The Classic F650's at least used them on the external tank vent lines.
There is an equivalent of the wire based ones, that are "flat band".
Might work. I dunno who makes them. I just have seen them.
As noted down in South Africa Tyraps seem to work. (What size I
dunno, they do vary.)
--
--- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Ambassador BMW MOA |
Brian Curry | A society that gets rid of all its
"DEERsSLAYER" | troublemakers goes downhill.
K75RTs both coasts | --Robert Heinlein
Chester Springs PA |
------------------------------
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BMW-Tech-Digest Wednesday, December 12 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 508
This digest and its contents (c) IBMWR and the original author(s).
---[ In This Digest ]--------------------------------------------------------
Re: Another Clamp Question - Oetiker NOT! (Anton Largiader)
Re: And now, back to clamps and clamping (DeVern Gerber)
Re: And now, back to clamps and clamping (Tom Cutter)
Re: And now, back to clamps and clamping (Ben Barkow)
RE: Wacky GPS Fun (Dave Eilers)
Re: And now, back to clamps and clamping (Tom Cutter)
RE: Wacky GPS Fun (lon jones)
Re: Help with K100/2 (Steve)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:51:52 -0500
From: Anton Largiader <anton@largiader.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Another Clamp Question - Oetiker NOT!
Glenn wrote:
> 03 CLAMP D=48,5 4 11611460900
>
> (The above clamp is also indicated as:
> 15 HOSE CLAMP D=46 4 11611460940
No, that's just another round clamp, that goes somewhere else.
> and ...
> 05 CLAMP D=50 4 11611460901
No, that's yet another round clamp that goes somewhere else. You could
also add 13 65 1 465 098 (D=51.5) and 11 61 1 464 912 (D=49) if you're
starting a collection. The first one is an Oetiker type.
What are you trying to seal? I probably have nearly every clamp here,
and could tell you what would work.
--
anton at largiader.com http://largiader.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:13:55 -0700
From: "DeVern Gerber" <gerberd@mtwest.net>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] And now, back to clamps and clamping
On 12 Dec 2007 at 13:11, Tom Cutter wrote:
> Suzuki uses the Single Coil Clamp style in their internal vent lines,
> so does Aprilia. I have repaired leaks in the internal vent systems of
> both brands. I use Oetiker clamps to cure the leakage.
>
>
That's an interesting data point. Where, and how, do these
manufacturers mount their fuel filter(s) and what is the procedure to
R&R the filter on routine service? Does removal of the filter require
(for those of us who are not professional wrenches) disturbing the vent
lines?
Thanks,
DeVern
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:23:29 -0500
From: Tom Cutter <tpcutter@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] And now, back to clamps and clamping
<<The Classic F650's at least used them on the external tank vent lines.
There is an equivalent of the wire based ones, that are "flat band".
Might work. I dunno who makes them. I just have seen them.>>
http://www.answers.com/topic/hose-clamp?cat=technology
http://www.RubberChickenRacingGarage.com
"Motorcycling is not, of itself, inherently dangerous. It is, however,
extremely unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence, or
stupidity ." - unk.
http://webmail.aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:23:54 -0500
From: "Ben Barkow" <ben.barkow@gmail.com>
Subject: [BMWTech] Re: And now, back to clamps and clamping
Now isn't that amazing. When I did my fuel filter 14,000 miles ago, I used
just such clamps on the little internal hoses. But since I wasn't certain if
the pliers used to afix them is called a "hog nose ring pliers," I was too
cowardly to post given the horrible consequences of posting errors or even
faulty spelling of "charcoal." I could be banished, eh, when push came to
shove.
Those were the only clamps in my extensive collection of hose clamps,
largest in this area of Toronto, that fit although they seemed on the loose
side. Seemed pretty shoddy kind of clamping for a repair with potentially
very costly consequences, but then 18 months and 14,000 miles can't be
denied. Or maybe my sense of smell for gasoline is poor.
I've spent a lot of time with BMW/metric fittings and mostly SAE hose bits
and filters. Often surprising how little it takes to connect things free of
leaks. But you wouldn't want to make mistakes inside your fuel tank.
Can't speak for other models, but the R1100S has some tank shortcomings. The
mystery black block (well, it has something to do with venting and sloshing)
comes loose and means you will have to deal with the little hoses to get it
back in place. Also, to get to fill the tank closer or faster to its top,
you might want to modify and/or bend the vent pipe upwards, again after
removing the hoses.
My guess is that with good Canadian gas, the gas filter should be good for
50,000 miles and deteriorate gradually. Does anybody have reliable
information?
By the way, I'm grateful that Brian and Steve O who I often tussle with have
never suggested settling our differences through violence. I'm lucky to have
nice antagonists like that. So far.
Ben
a bit sunny in Toronto. Don't know how I am gonna get the machine out to the
dyno guy before I start this years winter mods, left it too late.
> http://www.rotorclamp.com/products.php
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:32:38 -0600
From: "Dave Eilers" <dheilers@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [BMWTech] Wacky GPS Fun
> I'm seriously doubting SWMBO had the daughter's Murano runnin' above 250
on I-77.
Maybe she was drafting a Semi?
Serious, I have had a similar thing happen with my Street Pilot
infrequently. It seems to be correlated roughly with losing the GPS signal,
e.g., stopping at a restop and placing it onto the seat or floor so that it
is out of view. My guess is that the GPS software has a glitch were it
ocassionally gets a bad position as it loses the signal, and the software
uses the last good position and the "glitch position just before losing the
signal" to compute the speed, giving the incorrect max speed. I've never
gotten a bad max speed while it was mounted on my bike.
Oddly enough, my first bad max speed indication was also when my
Significant Other took her Z4 on a trip down to North Carolina. So perhaps
it also roughtly correlates with Women borrowing the GPS for a long trip.
Regards,
Dave E
-----Original Message-----
> From: bmw-tech-bounces@lists.ibmwr.org
[mailto:bmw-tech-bounces@lists.ibmwr.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Brand
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:16 AM
> To: bmw-tech@lists.ibmwr.org
> Subject: [BMWTech] Wacky GPS Fun
Okay, boys and girls, I've got a weird one here...
My trusty Garmin 2720 StreetPilot is sneaking out at night and havin' fun
without me. Gotta be. How else can I explain the following:
Just before Thanksgiving, I took ride over some of the local back roads on
an unseasonably warm day (Thanks, all you folks who disconnected your
charcoal cannisters! Just kidding...) As I often do, I checked my riding
time, distance and average speed at a fuel stop. Imagine my surprise when I
noticed my maximum recorded speed was 179 MPH! Wow! Didn't know the ol'
FYKRT had it in her! (That new stretch of four lane on RT 22 must be
smoother than I thought...) I thought it was odd, but, in the interest of
truth in advertising, I reset it. Got home, and my max was 77.
Fast forward to this past weekend. The wife drives to North Carolina to
visit her brother for the weekend, and uses the Garmin for directions. She
gets back, I set the thing up to navigate to a client's home and, when I go
to reset the trip info I notice the max speed is now 251 MPH! Now, the Brick
is fast, but I'm seriously doubting SWMBO had the daughter's Murano runnin'
above 250 on I-77.
So...any ideas? I mean, this is fun to show to the friends and all, but I'm
starting to seriously question the info that Jill, the Patron Saint of
Electronic Directions, lays out for me on that little screen. Everything
else seems right; travel times, distances, etc. As I said at the beginning,
weird.
Ride safe (and keep 'er under 250...),
Chuck
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:39:47 -0500
From: Tom Cutter <tpcutter@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] And now, back to clamps and clamping
<<That's an interesting data point. Where, and how, do these
manufacturers mount their fuel filter(s) and what is the procedure to
R&R the filter on routine service? Does removal of the filter require
(for those of us who are not professional wrenches) disturbing the vent
lines?>>
spring clamp (http://www.answers.com/topic/hose-clamp?cat=technology
(scroll down)) The vent tube inside the tank is welded in place. ow
The Aprilia that I had difficulty with was a track bike with a
fiberflass tank. The vent line was a pipe glassed into the interior of
the tank. T fiheberglass developed a leak, so the tank would self-empty
into the bodywork twenty minutes after refilling, or halfway through a
race. I cut off the pie inside the tank in two places, and clamped a
piece fo BMW vent hose between the cut ends. Seems to still be holding
fuel inside two years later. That job required getting both hands into
the tank through the filler and pump access holes, then working totally
blind.
http://www.RubberChickenRacingGarage.com
"Motorcycling is not, of itself, inherently dangerous. It is, however,
extremely unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence, or
stupidity ." - unk.
http://webmail.aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:02:58 -0600 (CST)
From: ltjones@hawkeye.ualr.edu (lon jones)
Subject: RE: [BMWTech] Wacky GPS Fun
> Okay, boys and girls, I've got a weird one here...
>
> My trusty Garmin 2720 StreetPilot is sneaking out at night and havin' fun
> without me. Gotta be. How else can I explain the following:
[...snip...]
> So...any ideas? I mean, this is fun to show to the friends and all, but I'm
> starting to seriously question the info that Jill, the Patron Saint of
> Electronic Directions, lays out for me on that little screen. Everything
> else seems right; travel times, distances, etc. As I said at the beginning,
> weird.
>
> Chuck
Chuck --
What's your astrological sign? Maybe your planets are mucking
with your satellites.
Or, maybe it's from going over speed bumps, causing a quick, high
acceleration of the gps antenna relative to actual speed???
But seriously, I've seen it on rare occasion on the GPSmap 172c in
my truck.
-- alonzo `78 R80/7 Little Rock, AR
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:09:30 +0000
From: Steve <cetacean@talktalk.net>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Help with K100/2
Hi James,
I've got all the bits, I just need some photos of a K100/2 without the
panels on so I can see what they mount to.
Steve
>> This <http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/photos/photophotos/k1002-3.jpg> is a K100/2
------------------------------
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BMW-Tech-Digest Wednesday, December 12 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 509
This digest and its contents (c) IBMWR and the original author(s).
---[ In This Digest ]--------------------------------------------------------
Re: Wacky GPS fun (Tang, David)
Re: Wacky GPS Fun (Marco S Hyman)
Re: Probably should be taken off list (Michael McGrady)
Re: And now, back to clamps and clamping (Brian Curry)
Re: Wacky GPS Fun (Tom Cutter)
RE: Probably should be taken off list (Gary Magin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:27:33 -0500
From: "Tang, David" <David.Tang@gowlings.com>
Subject: [BMWTech] Re: Wacky GPS fun
I have a maximum speed on my Garmin 2720 of 524 km/h. I decided to leave that on in case a cop pulled me over and wanted to see my max speed.
Any thought as to whether that would discourage him/her from giving me a ticket?
Dave Tang
BMW K1200RS (2002)
Toronto
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:28:04 -0800
From: Marco S Hyman <marc@snafu.org>
Subject: Re: [BMWTech] Wacky GPS Fun
> Serious, I have had a similar thing happen with my Street Pilot
> infrequently. It seems to be correlated roughly with losing the GPS signal,
> e.g., stopping at a restop and placing it onto the seat or floor so that it
> is out of view. My guess is that the GPS software has a glitch were it
> ocassionally gets a bad position as it loses the signal, and the software
> uses the last good position and the "glitch position just before losing the
> signal" to compute the speed, giving the incorrect max speed. I've never
> gotten a bad max speed while it was mounted on my bike.
Yes, it glitches like that. It is made worse in that the GPS will guestimate
your position for a while when it looses its signal. That may be OK on a
straight road, but really sucks when on twisties. I've seen the GPS assume
that I was going straight on a tangent to the curve I was on when the signal
was lost.
The high speed problem seems to occur when signal is lost, gained, causing
the glitch, then immediately lost again. My guess is that it uses that
glitch as its guestimate for dead reconing. Bad move. I've had it read 3xx
MPH sitting at a stop light under